Nitin Gadkari at Express Adda: ‘You need to work for those who voted for you, also for those who didn’t. This is democracy’

On building road infrastructure

The way we are developing India’s road infrastructure, I hope that by the end of 2024, it will be at par with America’s roads. The work we have done is only 20 per cent, the rest 80 per cent is in process. Recently, Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated the Mumbai-Nagpur Samruddhi Mahamarg. We connected that to Pune after Jalna, Aurangabad. It takes 22-24 hours to travel from Nagpur to Pune. After the work is done, travelling from Nagpur to Pune will take six hours while Nagpur to Mumbai will take seven hours. In two-three months, the commute from Delhi to Dehradun and Haridwar or to Jaipur will take two hours. Delhi to Chandigarh will take 2.5 hours, Delhi to Amritsar four, Delhi to Katara six hours. Delhi to Srinagar will take eight hours. Delhi to Mumbai will take 12 hours. Chennai to Bengaluru will take two hours. In European countries, industries are located next to rivers and containers are transported through the river. The logic behind this is that road travel might cost Rs 10, railway Rs 6 and Rs 1 if you take the water route. Naturally, we cannot have viable exports before reducing logistic costs. The logistics cost right now is 16 per cent and we are working to get it down to a single-digit number. If we could get the logistics costs to less than 10 per cent, then the difference of six percent will increase our exports, leading to economic growth.

On unemployment and job distress

My formula is the best. I create Rs five lakh crore with a budget of Rs two lakh crore. I introduced the first Infrastructure Investment Trust (InvITs) bond on the Bombay Stock Exchange. We gave 10 days for the bond and it was decided that after 10 days, I will issue the bond and close it. You’d be surprised that within seven hours (of starting the bond) it was seven times oversubscribed. I have no dearth of money. When I was returning from Australia, I decided that I would take money from the poor of India to build roads. Hindustan ke gareeb logon ka paisa le kar road banaunga. My model is, jo retired log hain — patrakar, constable, ordinary people, government officials — once they retire and deposit their money in the InvIT bond, I will give them a return of eight per cent. So, I got a lot of money through this.

Union minister Nitin Gadkari at Express Adda. (Express photo)

On why he doesn’t take foreign funds

If I take funds in dollars, the fluctuation in rates of dollar against the rupee is a big problem. Besides, I would have to take a guarantee from the Finance Ministry. I don’t want to get into such hassles. When people with proposals for funds come to me, I ask, would you need the guarantee of the Finance Ministry? If they say yes, then I say thank you very much, please have your tea and leave. I have a Triple-A rating, I have an income of Rs 40,000 crore and by the end of 2024, it will go up to Rs 1,40,000 crore. Agar mujhe paise dena hai toh do, nahi toh rehne do.

Post migration now, only 65 per cent of our rural and tribal population is engaged in agriculture. How will we move forward if there’s no growth in agriculture and no jobs in rural areas? Mera problem hai ki out-of-box idea koi sunne ko tayyar nahi hota. We import Rs 16 lakh crore worth of fossil fuel. Since 2004, I have been advocating for the diversification of agriculture towards the energy and power sector. We have a surplus of sugar, corn, wheat and rice. If we make ethanol, bio-CNG, bio-LNG, our imports will reduce. We need forest-based and agro-based industries. We need capital investments in sectors that will generate jobs. It will not be possible with just the government’s budget. Metro cities are overpopulated because many have migrated to these cities. This is happening because we have not paid enough attention to the rural economy. How many jobs can the government provide? If 55 per cent is spent on salaries, how will we develop the nation? If I had not built 55 flyovers between 1995 and 2000 in Mumbai, what would have been the situation there? If the Worli-Bandra Sea Link would have not been there, then what would have been the situation between Mahim and Dadar? They were done through public-private investment and it created employment and the government got revenue. That is why public-private investment (PPI) is monetising tourism, religious tourism and infrastructure projects. Therefore, we should not just be dependent on the government’s budget; PPI should also be introduced. This will lead to growth, development and employment.

The audience at the Express Adda

On the rise of the Aam Admi Party

Loktantra hai, jisko jisko azmana hai, woh aazma lai, jisko party kholna hai woh khol le, jisko kaam karna hai woh kare (In a democracy, anyone can try their hand at politics). I have always believed we need to talk about positivity, democracy and social good. If we do good, people will choose us. But if people don’t vote for us, then we will work as a responsible Opposition. We will work according to the role we are assigned. Agar hero ka role milega toh nachenge, villain ka milega toh fight karenge. We don’t waste our time thinking about what someone says and does.

On why the BJP still thinks like an Opposition party

My entire life has been spent in protest. If we talk of a constructive Opposition, the media will say that the Opposition is toothless. If the Opposition is aggressive, the media will say the Opposition party is irresponsible. I always say that a performance audit is more important than a financial audit.

(Right) Kirit Parikh, Chairman, Integrated Research and Action for Development (IRADe), and Jyoti Parikh, Executive Director, IRADe

On shrinking dialogue across party lines

If you analyse politics from 1947 onwards, you will see there have been many ups and downs. Atal Bihari Vajpayee used to say that there should be matbhed (difference of opinion) but not manbhed (conflict). When I started my political career, Vasantrao Bhagwat, the then RSS Mumbai chief, said that after coming to power, you need to work for those who voted for you and also for those who didn’t. This is what democracy means. After elections are over, we can have matbhed but not manbhed. However, today, instead of politics of conviction, it has become politics of convenience. I entered politics when the Emergency had been announced. A professor told me that in this country, difference in ideology is not a problem but having no thoughts is the real problem. After I became BJP president, I went to AB Bardhan, a Communist, to seek his blessings. I am from Nagpur and Bardhan was an iconic leader for us.

On the changes in the RSS

Now, a new generation has come. The RSS changed its uniform from half to full pants (laughs). Change is natural and it occurs in all spheres of life. But we never compromise on our spirit of nationalism. We never compromise on our principles. We are what we were yesterday and we will be the same tomorrow. It is part of our conviction. We are not professional politicians. I had a friend, Dr Shrikant Jichkar, of the Congress. He was an intellectual and used to say, ‘Nitin, you have the potential to be a good politician but you are in the wrong party, you won’t be able to do anything there. Join the Congress’. I said I will jump in a well but will not join the Congress! My conviction won’t allow me. Earlier, we could never imagine that we will become ministers one day. I remember there was a time we would respect the people who hadn’t lost their deposits. Now we have started winning. So circumstances change. We also faced a problem of perception vs reality. People used to perceive us as something else. The problem still persists to some extent. But we are changing that.

(Left) Vinod Dhall, former secretary, Government of India, and author Rekha Sarin

On the role of leadership

In every party there needs to be a balance between organisation, ideology and leadership and only then can it move forward. I will give you an example. A cycle has a tyre, a tube and a small valve.

If the valve is not working, the cycle won’t go forward. A leader is like a valve and if it is working, then the cycle works.

(From left) Anant Goenka, Executive Director, Indian Express Group, and Vandita Mishra, National Opinion Editor, The Indian Express, in conversation with Union Road Transport and Highways Minister Nitin Gadkari at Express Adda in Delhi

On Rahul Gandhi’s Bharat Jodo Yatra

He’s doing his work, I’m doing mine. His necessities are not ours and vice-versa. His role is of an Opposition party and he’s working hard. He has my good wishes. People will decide what to do.

On building infrastructure near the border

This is a sensitive matter. Work is going on. We are making roads and highways, be it in Arunachal, Meghalaya or Tripura. Ask any taxi driver there, they will tell you. I am doing road works worth Rs three lakh crore just in the Northeast. I am making tunnels worth Rs 7,000 crore in Kashmir. The road infrastructure that I am creating will unify the diverse cultures of our country.

On why two-wheelers are not allowed on expressways

Road safety is a huge concern for me. Allowing two-wheelers on expressways will not be good. The SaveLIFE Foundation pointed out 55 mistakes on the Mumbai-Pune Expressway. I called my officers and told them that the 55 mistakes are my mistakes. I should have identified them. So I asked them to audit all roads. We made a lot of changes to the old Mumbai-Pune highway at a lesser cost. In a meeting recently, we were talking about lane discipline. All around the world, trucks only run on one lane. But here, trucks keep changing lanes. I asked them to make a law that heavy buses and trucks will only run on the last lane. We will soon come up with regulations for speed limits in various types of expressways.

About 60 per cent of those who die in accidents are between 18 and 24 years of age. So many people don’t die in wars and in Covid. For the same reason, we cannot allow two-wheelers on expressways.

Shyam Bagri, Founder, Bagrry’s India Private Limited, with (right) Chekitan Sawhney, Chairman and Managing Director, Kesslec Smart Lighting Technologies Pvt Ltd

On increasing the speed limit on expressways

I consulted with ministers of states and said that the speed limit on expressways with access control should be 140 km/hour because it’s just a straight road. In places where it is a six-lane highway, it will be 120 km/h. It should be 60-80 km/h in cities. We made good roads but the speed regulations remain old. Hence, people are paying fines.

On companies, especially two-wheeler ones, being against the EV policy

The ones with an established business will find it difficult to change their manufacturing process. A top industrialist recently told me that when I had talked about EVs, they didn’t take it seriously. Now, they feel like they have missed the bus. Those who will enter the EV business first will earn money.

I told two top businessmen of India that in spite of being swadeshi, they are cost-centric, they should be quality-centric. Today, even a poor man doesn’t want to buy a black-and-white TV. Now, there’s a waiting list for EVs.

On Indian companies taking the EV route

Those who are making EVs, their stock value increased by 5 per cent. And those who aren’t making, their value dropped. There’s no need to convince people after they realise the profit in EVs.

On supporting hybrid automobiles

In a recent automobile programme, I said that my dream is that India’s fuel will be created by its farmers. I have been saying this since 2014. In five years, you will realise that I have been right. Toyota launched Camry in which if you put 60 per cent petrol, you get 40 per cent electricity. Now, their cars are being launched which will run on 100 per cent ethanol — 60 per cent ethanol and 40 per cent electricity. Petrol will then cost you Rs 25/litre. The cost will come down. It is pollution-free because it is a green fuel.

QUICK QUESTIONS

Which sector of Indian vehicle manufacturers, across commercial vehicles, tractors, two and four-wheelers, are you most proud of?

All. We are exporting our tractors, 50 per cent of our two-wheelers and soon electric buses will be exported too. Our trucks are exported to South Africa, Nepal and Bangladesh.

Which tenure did you enjoy more, party president or minister?

I never think about these things. Main one-day cricket jaisa hoon. Raat ko roz sochta hoon ki kya khana hai. I listen to music and watch plays. I am happy.

Where do you feel most at home, Bombay, Delhi or Nagpur?

Nagpur. I don’t like Delhi. I like Mumbai a lot because you get good food there even till 1-2 am.

Which nameplate do you prefer, Nitin Gadkari, RSS or Nitin Gadkari, BJP?

My nameplate only says ‘Nitin Gadkari’.

BJP-person first or RSS-person first in your identity?

I was in RSS first, then ABVP and then in BJP. All three belong to the same school of thought.

Rahul Gandhi or Arvind Kejriwal, who is the smarter politician?

I know both very well and they both have my good wishes. I don’t discriminate between them.

Who do you think is a more efficient politician, Uddhav Thackeray or Raj Thackeray?

I have good relations with both the families beyond politics. Raj was very close to me and I am close to Uddhav too. Balasahab was also extremely close to me. We had a very good relationship.

Who’s the smarter politician?

I don’t go to Maharashtra often so I don’t know.

Should ministers have a mandated retirement age?

Sunil Gavaskar said a good thing — there’s no fun in retiring when people ask you when you will retire. It’s fun to retire when people ask you why you are retiring.

Who in the BJP reminds you of a young Nitin Gadkari?

Abhi tak toh main hi young hoon! (I am still young!).

VOICE BANK

Dr Rashmi Saluja
Executive ChairpersoN, Religare Enterprises

A lot of accidents take place on highways and the mortality rate is high because hospitals are far. Services providers should be given space for trauma centres and emergency centres.

We are making at least 400 helipads, and are also encouraging heli ambulance. We have 400-500 ambulances that don’t work because there aren’t trained personnel to manage. So we have decided to outsource ambulances. The state government has ambulances, we will pay them yearly, and they have to ensure that the ambulance reaches the accident site within 25 minutes. After an accident, the vehicle needs to be cut, we have brought that equipment from Germany. We are also streamlining organ donation. The subject of trauma centres is related to the health ministry.

VN Dalmia
Director & Former Chairman, Dalmia Continental

I want to congratulate you for the announcement of a Vintage Motor Vehicles policy. Usually automobile clubs make the rules for such vehicles, and in the UK they are exempt from road fitness tests and tax.

I am against scrapping vintage vehicles but people have to take care of pollution and fuel consumption. It is our heritage and should be retained.

Nalini Singh
Managing director, Tv live India limited

Why has Char Dham become such a hurried project that it is impacting the Himalayas? That region gets land slides and avalanches. Also, the unemployment rate there is 40 per cent. Is the concept flawed?

I don’t agree with you. We have won the case in Supreme Court, and have decided not to cut trees but to transplant them. From the strategic point of view that road is very important as it goes to the China border. We need minimum space for movement of military equipment. We also need to make tunnels and are taking measures to ensure the safety of trees there. At present, tourists only visit Uttarakhand for six months, but when they travel there for the entire year, people will find employment in hotels, restaurants and so on. From worldover people go to Davos, now we are developing Auli, introducing adventure sports and sports on ice. We want to connect Joshimath to Auli. We need to protect the environment and at the same time explore avenues for economic growth.

Syed Arshad
Founder and CEO, Blue Rose Publishers

Is there a need to spend so much money on election campaigns?

I have a conviction that instead of talking about jaat-paat, dharm, bhasha and gender, we should work. I am from Nagpur and my constituency was very difficult for my party, but I won with a margin of 3.5 lakh. People from different religions support me. You need to serve people with honesty. One should not earn money through politics. I am organising sports events, cultural festival Khasdar Sanskrutik Mahotsav, Agrovision that focuses on agriculture — so I am meeting people from different sectors. If we keep working, we earn the trust of people. But it’s also up to the people — if people say they will only vote for those who bribe them, how will politics improve?